My beautiful wife Becky got me my Birthday present a little early (two weeks early) -- It is Sports Illustrated's "Baseball's Greatest", an excellent book with great pictures & brief stats that are straight to the point.
I always like these greatest players debates, and there is certainly always going to be an argument one way another, with who's better than who? Well, yeah he played in a tougher era & well, he was playing with an unfair advantage by cheating, or when did he exactly start cheating?
This book was put together by seven of Sports Illustrated's writers & editors who have had a huge background in baseball knowledge, and of those seven writers, a name that I trust and have tons of respect for, is that of Tom Verducci. If you don't know who Verducci is, than you probably have no clue about the game of baseball, and certainly don't watch the MLB Network or read Sports Illustrated. Verducci, is a mild-mannered writer who flat-out knows his stuff, poetic with his love for baseball, and spits out stats that are straight to the point. He is my kind of guy, and in a lot of ways his words to me, is that of Baseball Gospel.
Even so, there is 6 other writers, and these countdowns or top 10's or whatevers, can be quite messy -- not so much with this book, it was pretty spot-on. One of the best groups of lists if you ask me...
So here is goes...
I started thinking on the lines of Pastor Rich, with his super-teams -- The Hitmen & the Hurricanes, and made a roster of SI's "Baseball's Greatest" -- Top 2 of all the normal positions & their top three RH starting pitchers& top three LH starting pitchers, top 3 relievers, with a few other things.
Then I was going to modify the roster afterwards, put some of the new era guys, on their own new era team, and then I took it further by a Today's stars team & etc.
The first draft of the SI's "Baseball's Greatest" roster
C - Johnny Bench
C - Yogi Berra
1B - Lou Gehrig
1B - Albert Pujols
2B - Rogers Hornsby
2B - Joe Morgan
3B - Mike Schmidt
3B - George Brett
SS - Honus Wagner
SS - Cal Ripken, Jr.
LF - Ted Williams
LF - Stan Musial
CF - Willie Mays
CF - Ty Cobb
RF - Babe Ruth
RF - Hank Aaron
RHP - Walter Johnson
RHP - Christy Mathewson
RHP - Cy Young
LHP - Sandy Koufax
LHP - Lefty Grove
LHP - Warren Spahn
RP - Mariano Rivera
RP - Dennis Eckersley
RP - Rollie Fingers
The players above were #1-#2 in each of their positons, the pitchers & relievers were what they were ranked #1-#3 in the book, on these lists I noticed that a few new era players made the lists, so I felt we have to somewhat separate the eras, just a tad bit. I felt the two players to move were Albert Pujols & Mariano Rivera, it's strange moving Mo over, because he is indeed the #1 reliever of all-time, there is really no argument there -- The Yankees would not have won most of the titles if it were not for Rivera. I made the moves only because for the new era I had RP-Trevor Hoffman (#5 SI's relievers) & RP-Billy Wagner (#10 SI's relievers), they needed one more. There is more old school relievers, so I can bring up Rich Gossage who was #4 on the list.
To replace Albert Pujols, I went with the next guy in line, according to SI's list, and that is Jimmie Foxx.
The first draft of the SI's "Baseball's Greatest" roster
C - Johnny Bench
C - Yogi Berra
1B - Lou Gehrig
1B - Jimmie Foxx
2B - Rogers Hornsby
2B - Joe Morgan
3B - Mike Schmidt
3B - George Brett
SS - Honus Wagner
SS - Cal Ripken, Jr.
LF - Ted Williams
LF - Stan Musial
CF - Willie Mays
CF - Ty Cobb
RF - Babe Ruth
RF - Hank Aaron
OF - Rickey Henderson
RHP - Walter Johnson
RHP - Christy Mathewson
RHP - Cy Young
LHP - Sandy Koufax
LHP - Lefty Grove
LHP - Warren Spahn
RP - Dennis Eckersley
RP - Rollie Fingers
RP - Rich Gossage
Managers
John McGraw
Joe McCarthy
Casey Stengel
The three managers were exactly the way they were ranked, I'm not quite sure if I would make McCarthy #2, but then again he had a lot of success, I sometimes think due to the fact he didn't have the personality or was not as out-spoken as the other two -- maybe that's why he's often overshadowed, but there is also a long line of skippers that follow on this list in which you can argue was a better manager even. Like I said before, it's all up for debate. Will I add coaches? Will I use other managers to be the coaches, maybe pitching coaches? Not sure, as of right now -- three managers, McGraw will have the ultimate decision, while the other two are his advisors, while still playing an important role.
You may noticed that I added Rickey Henderson to the roster, he is ranked #3 among the LF category, and of course took #1 for best baserunner. I plan to make the roster with 28 players, so with his addition that makes it 26 players.
It turns out they also have a Designated Hitter section, so I will add their #1 in Edgar Martinez to the group, Frank Thomas (#2) would be added to the New Era Team Roster with #3 David Ortiz. I decided to add another DH to the Greatest Roster in Paul Molitor, who also can be a backup second baseman & third baseman.
The second draft of the SI's "Baseball's Greatest" roster
C - Johnny Bench
C - Yogi Berra
1B - Lou Gehrig
1B - Jimmie Foxx
2B - Rogers Hornsby
2B - Joe Morgan
3B - Mike Schmidt
3B - George Brett
SS - Honus Wagner
SS - Cal Ripken, Jr.
LF - Ted Williams
LF - Stan Musial
CF - Willie Mays
CF - Ty Cobb
RF - Babe Ruth
RF - Hank Aaron
OF - Rickey Henderson
DH - Edgar Martinez
DH/2B/3B - Paul Molitor
RHP - Walter Johnson
RHP - Christy Mathewson
RHP - Cy Young
LHP - Sandy Koufax
LHP - Lefty Grove
LHP - Warren Spahn
RP - Dennis Eckersley
RP - Rollie Fingers
RP - Rich Gossage
Managers
John McGraw
Joe McCarthy
Casey Stengel
Meanwhile, this is the New Era roster which is not really "new era", more like post-LCS era team -- might have to think up, more clever names, maybe I can get more help from the guys on the APBA Facebook Page. Any Suggestions?
The first draft of the "New Era" Team (# The rank in their respective position)
C - Ivan Rodriguez (#4)
C - Mike Piazza (#9)
1B - Albert Pujols (#2)
1B/DH - Mark McGwire (#10)
2B - Roberto Alomar (#6)
2B - Ryne Sandberg (#8)
3B - Wade Boggs (#4)
3B - Chipper Jones (#6)
3B/1B - Miguel Cabrera (#9)
SS - Derek Jeter (#3)
SS - Alex Rodriguez (#7)
LF - Barry Bonds (#4)
LF - Manny Ramirez (#10)
CF - Ken Griffey, Jr. (#6)
CF - Kirby Puckett (#9)
RF - Tony Gwynn (#9)
RF - Ichiro Suzuki (#11)
DH - Frank Thomas (#2)
DH - David Ortiz (#3)
RHP - Greg Maddux (#4)
RHP - Roger Clemens (#7)
RHP - Pedro Martinez (#8)
LHP - Randy Johnson (#4)
LHP - Tom Glavine (#9)
RP - Mariano Rivera (#1)
RP - Trevor Hoffman (#5)
RP - Billy Wagner (#10)
Managers
Tony La Russa (#4)
Bobby Cox (#8)
Joe Torre (#9)
These three managers I feel represent this era the best, I don't necessarily agree with Tony La Russa being so high on this list; in fact the statements that I'm about to post will probably shock people to their baseball core, but everyone has preferences and opinions on certain matters. For example some people feel the all-time hits leader (Pete Rose) should be in the Hall of Fame, others say "Hey, he broke the Cardinal rule". So here it is, I don't question that Tony La Russa was a good manager, I feel he is a bit over-rated, and I say this because he had a great roster with the Oakland Athletics in the late 80's, and some can argue if any manager could have done just as well -- plus, I don't buy the B.S. that he had no idea that Mark McGwire, Jose Canseco & others on that team were using steroids.
Oh yes, I feel there was definitely a good handful of players on that "dynasty"/ powerhouse club -- seriously, there is a picture of that A's team along the 3B line for the playoffs, and when you compare them to one of the teams on the other base path, it is almost downright hilarious the difference in size, Ron Hassey even was huge -- Hello, Dave Henderson, Dave Parker? Parker suddenly went through a brief career rebirth in Milwaukee, just after Jose introduced him to some candy with his time in Oakland.
Another thing about La Russa, I think Dave Duncan doesn't get enough credit as the pitching coach, La Russa took him everywhere he went, couldn't live without him -- just in the same way, Bill Parcells couldn't live without Bill Belichick; am I the only one that noticed that Parcels couldn't win without him? Back to baseball & La Russa; La Russa sometimes was a bit too smug, and I feel Cox has him beat in numerous areas. #4 is too high, when considering other managers like Earl Weaver, Sparky Anderson & Walter Alston.
You may notice above that Edgar Martinez's name crossed off, that's because I had him originally as a New Era member, but I bumped him up. All the guys who received votes, were noted in order in the back of the book -- I wanted Ichiro Suzuki to be represented in the New Era, and it turns out he was the next guy from that era (missing the top 10 to a questionable choice of Paul Waner at #10 for SI.
That puts the roster at 27, I did notice that I don't have a #3 LHP -- no other received a vote in this era, so that will have to wait for now. Looking at Miguel Cabrera started bothering me, because he seems to be out of place, and the whole idea that players of today's game like Joe Mauer, Joey Votto & Mike Trout started bothering me -- they would have to have a team for Today's stars. Plus I noticed that Jeff Bagwell was missing from the New Era in which he would fit perfectly & of course there was noticeable stars missing from the Greatest Team, especially ones that wore pinstripes. In the end Miguel with the current pace of his career will be on the Greatest Team, and possibly the greatest five or so, when it's all said and done -- but we will have to wait and see.
I also felt "Big Papi" would fit in with Today's Stars as well, so I added Jeff Bagwell & his teammate Craig Biggio.
3B/1B - Miguel Cabrera
DH - David Ortiz (#3)
I also felt "Big Papi" would fit in with Today's Stars as well, so I added Jeff Bagwell & his teammate Craig Biggio.
The second draft of the "New Era" Team
C - Ivan Rodriguez
C - Mike Piazza
1B - Albert Pujols
1B/DH - Mark McGwire
1B - Jeff Bagwell
1B - Jeff Bagwell
2B - Roberto Alomar
2B - Ryne Sandberg
2B/C - Craig Biggio
2B/C - Craig Biggio
3B - Wade Boggs
3B - Chipper Jones
SS - Derek Jeter
SS - Alex Rodriguez
LF - Barry Bonds
LF - Manny Ramirez
CF - Ken Griffey, Jr.
CF - Kirby Puckett
RF - Tony Gwynn
RF - Ichiro Suzuki
DH - Frank Thomas
RHP - Greg Maddux
RHP - Roger Clemens
RHP - Pedro Martinez
LHP - Randy Johnson
LHP - Tom Glavine
RP - Mariano Rivera
RP - Trevor Hoffman
RP - Billy Wagner
Managers
Tony La Russa (#4)
Bobby Cox (#8)
Joe Torre (#9)
DH/2B/3B - Paul Molitor
RP - Rich Gossage
RP - Mariano Rivera
Personally, I feel we can't have a roster without the greatest switch-hitting slugger of all-time, not to mention the fact he has tons of HR's & is the all-time postseason (World Series) HR leader -- No, Mickey Mantle? I don't think so. The tough thing is, he beats out Joe DiMaggio for the spot. Which also means someone's got to go, sorry Goose! Plus now with 8 outfielders, I feel having the extra DH in Paul Molitor is too much, to make me keeping Edgar the #1 DH legit, especially considering that DiMaggio is not on the roster, that means Mariano Rivera should be on this roster.
The third draft of the SI's "Baseball's Greatest" roster
C - Johnny Bench
C - Yogi Berra
1B - Lou Gehrig
1B - Jimmie Foxx
2B - Rogers Hornsby
2B - Joe Morgan
3B - Mike Schmidt
3B - George Brett
SS - Honus Wagner
SS - Cal Ripken, Jr.
LF - Ted Williams
LF - Stan Musial
CF - Willie Mays
CF - Ty Cobb
RF - Babe Ruth
RF - Hank Aaron
OF - Mickey Mantle
OF - Mickey Mantle
OF - Rickey Henderson
DH - Edgar Martinez
RHP - Walter Johnson
RHP - Christy Mathewson
RHP - Cy Young
LHP - Sandy Koufax
LHP - Lefty Grove
LHP - Warren Spahn
RP - Mariano Rivera
RP - Mariano Rivera
RP - Dennis Eckersley
RP - Rollie Fingers
Managers
John McGraw
Joe McCarthy
Casey Stengel
Which means we need to fix the reliever situation, instead of bringing up the next relievers in line to meet this era in John Franco, Lee Smith -- I noticed John Smoltz's name #13 on the relief list, he can work really well as the possible 6th/alternate starting pitcher as well, plus Glavine & Maddux without Smoltzie just seems wrong. Plus it was the era of the shortstop going to that next level, hello Barry Larkin!
The third draft of the "New Era" Team
C - Ivan Rodriguez
C - Mike Piazza
1B - Albert Pujols
1B/DH - Mark McGwire
1B - Jeff Bagwell
1B - Jeff Bagwell
2B - Roberto Alomar
2B - Ryne Sandberg
2B/C - Craig Biggio
2B/C - Craig Biggio
3B - Wade Boggs
3B - Chipper Jones
SS - Derek Jeter
SS - Alex Rodriguez
SS - Barry Larkin
SS - Barry Larkin
LF - Barry Bonds
LF - Manny Ramirez
CF - Ken Griffey, Jr.
CF - Kirby Puckett
RF - Tony Gwynn
RF - Ichiro Suzuki
DH - Frank Thomas
RHP - Greg Maddux
RHP - Roger Clemens
RHP - Pedro Martinez
LHP - Randy Johnson
LHP - Tom Glavine
P / RP - John Smoltz
P / RP - John Smoltz
RP - Trevor Hoffman
RP - Billy Wagner
Managers
Tony La Russa
Bobby Cox
Joe Torre
In time I will put together a roster of Today's stars, but here are the final rosters (or are they? LOL!) for the GREATEST TEAM & NEW ERA TEAM.
The final draft of the SI's "Baseball's Greatest" roster
C - Johnny Bench
C - Yogi Berra
1B - Lou Gehrig
1B - Jimmie Foxx
2B - Rogers Hornsby
2B - Joe Morgan
3B - Mike Schmidt
3B - George Brett
SS - Honus Wagner
SS - Cal Ripken, Jr.
LF - Ted Williams
LF - Stan Musial
CF - Willie Mays
CF - Ty Cobb
RF - Babe Ruth
RF - Hank Aaron
OF - Mickey Mantle
OF - Mickey Mantle
OF - Rickey Henderson
DH - Edgar Martinez
RHP - Walter Johnson
RHP - Christy Mathewson
RHP - Cy Young
LHP - Sandy Koufax
LHP - Lefty Grove
LHP - Warren Spahn
RP - Mariano Rivera
RP - Mariano Rivera
RP - Dennis Eckersley
RP - Rollie Fingers
Managers
John McGraw
Joe McCarthy
Casey Stengel
The final draft of the "New Era" Team
C - Ivan Rodriguez
C - Mike Piazza
1B - Albert Pujols
1B/DH - Mark McGwire
1B - Jeff Bagwell
1B - Jeff Bagwell
2B - Roberto Alomar
2B - Ryne Sandberg
2B/C - Craig Biggio
2B/C - Craig Biggio
3B - Wade Boggs
3B - Chipper Jones
SS - Derek Jeter
SS - Alex Rodriguez
SS - Barry Larkin
SS - Barry Larkin
LF - Barry Bonds
LF - Manny Ramirez
CF - Ken Griffey, Jr.
CF - Kirby Puckett
RF - Tony Gwynn
RF - Ichiro Suzuki
DH - Frank Thomas
RHP - Greg Maddux
RHP - Roger Clemens
RHP - Pedro Martinez
LHP - Randy Johnson
LHP - Tom Glavine
P / RP - John Smoltz
P / RP - John Smoltz
RP - Trevor Hoffman
RP - Billy Wagner
Managers
Tony La Russa
Bobby Cox
Joe Torre
Now... what do we do with the left-overs? Make an "In-Between Team"?
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